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Three Guys Named Joe, What’s the Use of Getting Sober When You’re Gonna Get Drunk Again, And Other Topical Louis Jordan Tunes
2007-11-04 20:36
by Mike Carminati

Three Guys Named Joe

So George's sons, the Katzenbrenner kids, screwed up the Joe Torre firing, but at least they got the man I believe is the best for the job, Joe Girardi. Girardi pulled off a minor miracle in keeping the 2006 Marlins, a team made up almost exclusively of rookies, a team that cut an unprecedented percentage of its salary from the previous season, at about .500 for the entire season.

Yankee fans might fear his handling of a potentially young staff next season. He Billy Balled the young Marlins staff last year and they showed the wear this year. But, that's nothing that a decent pitching coach—Leo Mazzone, anyone?—can't handle.

Joe Girardi replaces Joe Torre. The only other Joe in Yankee managerial history was Joe McCarthy. Maybe all Yankee managers should adopt the name Joe, and they can number them like they do with popes.

Anyway, I am more interested in what the other Joe. Torre takes over a club in LA that underperformed enthusiastically this past season and one that should be able to rebound quickly given a weak NL.

Anyway, Torre already has 2000 wins as a manager, over a thousand as a Yankee, and has all but sealed up a plaque in Cooperstown. Besides he will be starting over with a new team at the age of 67. I was wondering if there were any managers who started with a new team under similar circumstances and how well they did with the new team.

Well, there is just one manager who took a new job after the age of 60 and with 1000 or more wins with their previous team (Casey Stengel, who disastrously took over the expansion Mets after winning 1851 games with the Yankees) . As for managers age 60 or more who took a new job, there are six and here they are with there results with their previous team and over the remainder of their careers:

NameAgeExpPrev WPrev LGPrev TmFirstLastRemaining FirstRemaining LastRemaining WRemaining L
Casey Stengel692711496961851NYY1949196019621965175404
Felipe Alou66106917171408WSN1992200120032006342304
Leo Durocher66345355261065CHC19661972197219739895
Jack McKeon6928291259551CIN1997200020032005241207
Chuck Dressen6228159124284ATL1960196119631966221189
Jimmie Dykes6327118115233DET1959196019601961103115
Jimmie Dykes6125241741CIN1958195819591961221230

The most wins for a player starting a new managerial job was by guess who? Joe McCarthy who had 1460 with the Yankees when he took over the Red Sox in 1948. Here are the results for all
NameAgeExpPrev WPrev LGPrev TmFirstLastRemaining FirstRemaining LastRemaining WRemaining L
Joe McCarthy592114608672348NYY1931194619481950223145
Bucky Harris5731133614162776MIN1924195419551956161147
Cap Anson452312839322258CHC1879189718981898913
Casey Stengel692711496961851NYY1949196019621965175404
Hughie Jennings511411319722127DET19071920192419255323
Frank Selee411210046491677ATL1890190119021905280213

There's not a lot of longevity in that crowd. I think it applies to Torre. He probably has no more than four or five years left in his managerial career, but he might have success left in him in that span especially with the Dodgers.

What's the Use of Getting Sober When You're Gonna Get Drunk Again

2007 is the worst postseason of all time. Period. And I can prove it.

It's not because my Phils lost or because TV ratings were down or even because the Red Sox won I say this season was the worst postseason because the average margin of victory overall was the worst in divisional play.

There were years in which the winning team beat up on the loser with a more ferocity, but those were seasons that consisted of one playoff series, the World Series. This year consisted of three rounds and seven separate series, and they almost all stunk to high heaven.

Here are the worst margins of victory for an entire postseason. Note that this season is a third of a run worse than the next year since the inception of divisional play:

YrG Avg MoV Winning runs Losing runs
19607 6.00 8.86 2.86
19687 5.86 7.29 1.43
19366 5.33 8.17 2.83
19375 4.80 6.40 1.60
19657 4.57 5.43 0.86
19324 4.50 9.25 4.75
19516 4.50 6.17 1.67
19105 4.40 7.20 2.80
19615 4.40 6.20 1.80
200728 4.39 6.79 2.39
19284 4.25 6.75 2.50
19347 4.14 6.14 2.00
19457 4.14 6.43 2.29
199931 4.06 6.61 2.55
19097 4.00 6.43 2.43
19587 4.00 5.86 1.86
198215 4.00 6.67 2.67
2007-11-04 21:23:35
1.   Scott Long
One of my favorite records of the 80's was Joe Jackson's take on a lot of Jordan and Calloway tunes. It was done way before Brian Setzer revived the Swing revival.

Not a surprise that I would agree completely with your notion that it was the worst post-season in baseball history. This was the type of year that people who claim that baseball lacks the excitement of football or basketball would have had a point. Here's looking to things getting better again in 2008.

2007-11-04 23:45:03
2.   fordprefect
Re Jump and Jive and baseball in general: " You run your mouth and I'll run my business, brother" ought to be Torre's stock response to the savagery Plaschke & cie will no doubt spew his way.
2007-11-04 23:58:18
3.   fordprefect
Bumped into JJ slumming in Santa Monica not long after the One World and Night and Day projects were done. He seemed surprised to find I liked both recordings quite a bit actually. Late '80s maybe '87...Great unassuming guy, Not as self-important as most other musicians I'd met up to that time.

Ended up closing out the Circle that night.
Gipsy, (Penelope Spheeris' mom, I believe) the bartender's doses seemed spectacularly potent that evening. Vaguely remember wobbling up back to our separate apartments over the 5th street hill. He had to assure me he wasn't following me home.
Seemed funny at the time....

2007-11-05 00:37:16
4.   thelarmis
as a professional musician, joe jackson, is my favorite musician in the world. i am also a very large JJ collector.

1 yeah, jumpin' jive was way ahead of its time. it was reissued after the setzer/royal crown revue/swing revival, but didn't enjoy the success it deserved. joe recorded another louis jordan tune during that time as a b-side ("knock me a kiss") and performed other non-album similar tunes live.

3 i think you meant big world. that's cool you met him and he was nice - he's usually described as "surly."

brand new JJ album, entitled Rain, will be out the end of january!

hey mike, here are 2 other Louis Jordan titles for this post:
Run Joe
Bahama Joe

2007-11-05 08:24:03
5.   JL25and3
1 Reap that righteous riff, mop, mop.

Jumpin' Jive was how I discovered Louis Jordan in the first place.

2007-11-05 09:48:47
6.   thelarmis
5 "Jumpin' Jive was how I discovered Louis Jordan in the first place."

me too! then louis became my favorite entertainer. i've seen the 5 guys named moe play on 3 different occasions and it's always entertaining.

2007-11-05 15:31:41
7.   Ravenscar
I have seen a lot of shows in my day, and the Joe Jackson "Work it Out" pre-release testing tour for his highly underrated "Laughter and Lust" album was in a bar in Poughkeepsie in 1990. A BAR. One of the best shows I ever saw. He's one of those guys - like Prince - who has permanent amnesty when he puts out crap (coughNightandDayTwocough) because he'd already quintupled the output quality of countless successful musicians with his first 6 albums.
2007-11-05 17:00:28
8.   thelarmis
7 dude, i am soooo freaking jealous that you saw that and yes, L&L is massively underrated. just a fantastic album! was the bar The Chance, by chance?
2007-11-05 18:04:39
9.   Mike Carminati
By the way, check out the stuff JJ has been doing in the 2000s with his original band (Graham Maby et al). It's great. He has also put out about three live albums in the last ten years, and there's a reason: he's tremendous in concert. I have seen him about five times over the years. He always reinvents his old songs and always has something new up his sleeve. (I think I have heard about 20 different arrangements for "Is She really Going Out With Him" over the years.)
2007-11-05 20:34:32
10.   thelarmis
9 absolutely! yeah, it's 3 live records all in the 2000's. the first leg of the next US tour, i believe, is from Apr 1-May 15th. i'm pretty certain he'll be playing Philly...

new album/tour/band is the original group minus gary sanford on guitar. i have some audio and video of the latest gigs and, as always, it's fantastic! : )

2007-11-05 21:11:12
11.   Ravenscar
Ahhhh thelarmis indeed it was the infamous now-dead Chance! I still remember so vividly "The Other Me" which is such an amazingly painful song.

As far as his live stuff, I really like the "Live 80-86" album a bit more than his recent stuff. Too many live albums starts to dull them to my ears a bit.

2007-11-05 23:31:27
12.   thelarmis
11 ooh, i had no clue the Chance closed down. they used to get great shows there! i was in queens and i don't think i ever made it there for a concert, though i had cousins in the area when i was little.

you hit it man, "the other me," is easily one of my very favorite JJ tunes.

i hear ya on the too many live albums. joe himself isn't even that much of a fan, though he has so many at this point. but like mike said in post 9 , jj reinvents himself in so many ways.

2 of the last 3 live records were pretty cool. the latest one, Afterlife, is really cool b/c it's the original band. 2 Rainy Nights, is awesome 'coz it's almost all Latin and the band is smokin', even though it's on the Night & Day II tour. that album is not nearly as bad as some think...

2007-11-05 23:42:58
13.   thelarmis
hey, if you guys wanna check out a new JJ tune from his upcoming album, follow the link below. you can either listen and/or download it. the tune is called "King Pleasure Time". it's not one of the best tunes on the album, but it's certainly still excellent. joe had 12 new tunes for this record, but unfortunately, only recorded 10 of them...

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