Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
Experience is a mere whiff or rumble, produced by enormously complex and ill-deciphered causes of experience; and in the other direction, experience is a mere peephole through which glimpses come down to us of eternal things.
George "Don't Call Me Johan" Santayana
Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. Oscar "Azocar" Wilde
I got a nice mention in Todd Zolecki's column in the Inquirer today. Todd noticed that the Phils had three relievers (Jose Mesa, Tom Gordon, and Antonio Alfonseca) who have over 100 career savesoddly, none of whom is the closer, and he asked if that was an uncommon occurrence.
I looked it up and it had happened 16 times prior to this season, the most being four 100-plus relievers on the 2002 Phils:
Yr | Tm | Player1 | Sv | Player2 | Sv | Player3 | Sv | Player4 | Sv |
1968 | DET | John Wyatt | 103 | Don McMahon | 106 | Roy Face | 188 | ||
1972 | LAN | Jim Brewer | 103 | Ron Perranoski | 179 | Hoyt Wilhelm | 227 | ||
1972 | NYA | Sparky Lyle | 104 | Jack Aker | 109 | Lindy McDaniel | 160 | ||
1973 | NYA | Wayne Granger | 101 | Sparky Lyle | 131 | Lindy McDaniel | 170 | ||
1985 | ATL | Terry Forster | 122 | Gene Garber | 170 | Bruce Sutter | 283 | ||
1992 | OAK | Jeff Russell | 113 | Dennis Eckersley | 239 | Rich Gossage | 308 | ||
1996 | BAL | Jesse Orosco | 133 | Roger McDowell | 159 | Randy Myers | 274 | ||
1997 | KCA | Gregg Olson | 173 | Mitch Williams | 192 | Jeff Montgomery | 256 | ||
2001 | LAN | Jesse Orosco | 141 | Jeff Shaw | 203 | Gregg Olson | 217 | ||
2002 | PHI | Mike Timlin | 114 | Ricky Bottalico | 114 | Dan Plesac | 156 | Jose Mesa | 225 |
2003 | NYA | Jesse Orosco | 144 | Armando Benitez | 197 | Mariano Rivera | 283 | ||
2003 | PHI | Mike Williams | 144 | Dan Plesac | 158 | Jose Mesa | 249 | ||
2003 | SDN | Jesse Orosco | 144 | Rod Beck | 286 | Trevor Hoffman | 352 | ||
2004 | PHI | Todd Jones | 186 | Billy Wagner | 246 | Roberto Hernandez | 320 | ||
2005 | NYN | Braden Looper | 103 | Danny Graves | 182 | Roberto Hernandez | 324 | ||
2006 | ATL | Danys Baez | 111 | John Smoltz | 154 | Bob Wickman | 247 |
That got me wondering about the most career saves for a bullpen and whether it matters how much closing experience a bullpen has. You might notice that the Phils' bullpen even with three members with 100+ career saves has been among the worst in baseball all season. They currently have the 22nd best ERA (4.22) among the major-league bullpens.
I ran the numbers for team winning percentage, career saves, lead retention rate (based on leads after six innings), and relief wins (which is based on the runs saved based on pitching roles). I found that career saves matters very little.
First, here are the bullpens with the most career saves:
Team | Yr | W | L | PCT | POS | Team SV | Career SV | Max Career SV | Leads Kept | Leads Lost | Lead Pct | Relief Wins |
Philadelphia Phillies | 2004 | 86 | 76 | .531 | 2 | 43 | 834 | 320 | 52 | 9 | 85.25% | 6.20 |
New York Yankees | 2003 | 101 | 61 | .623 | 1 | 49 | 816 | 283 | 77 | 11 | 87.50% | 5.53 |
San Diego Padres | 2003 | 64 | 98 | .395 | 5 | 31 | 804 | 352 | 39 | 12 | 76.47% | -9.84 |
New York Mets | 2006 | 97 | 65 | .599 | 1 | 43 | 794 | 326 | 67 | 4 | 94.37% | 14.49 |
Oakland Athletics | 1992 | 96 | 66 | .593 | 1 | 58 | 776 | 308 | 61 | 7 | 89.71% | 5.14 |
New York Mets | 2004 | 71 | 91 | .438 | 4 | 31 | 769 | 424 | 47 | 12 | 79.66% | 3.96 |
Los Angeles Dodgers | 2001 | 86 | 76 | .531 | 3 | 46 | 765 | 217 | 57 | 8 | 87.69% | -6.12 |
New York Mets | 2003 | 66 | 95 | .410 | 5 | 38 | 754 | 424 | 51 | 8 | 86.44% | 1.38 |
Oakland Athletics | 1993 | 68 | 94 | .420 | 7 | 42 | 745 | 309 | 43 | 7 | 86.00% | -5.20 |
New York Yankees | 2005 | 95 | 67 | .586 | 1 | 46 | 743 | 379 | 65 | 8 | 89.04% | 0.40 |
Boston Red Sox | 1990 | 88 | 74 | .543 | 1 | 44 | 742 | 287 | 57 | 11 | 83.82% | -2.42 |
New York Mets | 1999 | 97 | 66 | .595 | 2 | 49 | 738 | 416 | 73 | 7 | 91.25% | 9.32 |
Here are the least (since 1901):
Team | Yr | W | L | PCT | POS | Team SV | Career SV | Max Career SV | Leads Kept | Leads Lost | Lead Pct | Relief Wins |
Philadelphia Athletics | 1904 | 81 | 70 | .536 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 53 | 8 | 86.89% | -1.46 |
Cincinnati Reds | 1904 | 88 | 65 | .575 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 54 | 9 | 85.71% | 0.38 |
Chicago Orphans | 1902 | 68 | 69 | .496 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 53 | 5 | 91.38% | 0.36 |
Chicago Orphans | 1901 | 53 | 86 | .381 | 6 | 0 | 4 | 2 | 39 | 8 | 82.98% | 0.05 |
Philadelphia Phillies | 1902 | 56 | 81 | .409 | 7 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 40 | 7 | 85.11% | -2.27 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 1902 | 56 | 78 | .418 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 34 | 3 | 91.89% | -2.21 |
Philadelphia Athletics | 1901 | 74 | 62 | .544 | 4 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 50 | 9 | 84.75% | -0.21 |
Detroit Tigers | 1901 | 74 | 61 | .548 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 44 | 6 | 88.00% | 0.22 |
Cincinnati Reds | 1902 | 70 | 70 | .500 | 4 | 1 | 5 | 3 | 51 | 11 | 82.26% | -0.39 |
Washington Senators | 1902 | 61 | 75 | .449 | 6 | 1 | 5 | 4 | 39 | 7 | 84.78% | -0.50 |
Washington Senators | 1910 | 66 | 85 | .437 | 7 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 48 | 9 | 84.21% | -1.34 |
You'll notice most are from the early twentieth century. Here are the most since the instution of the official save stat in 1969:
Team | Yr | W | L | PCT | POS | Team SV | Career SV | Max Career SV | Leads Kept | Leads Lost | Lead Pct | Relief Wins |
Oakland Athletics | 1996 | 78 | 84 | .481 | 3 | 34 | 43 | 18 | 53 | 8 | 86.89% | -0.12 |
Florida Marlins | 1998 | 54 | 108 | .333 | 5 | 24 | 44 | 11 | 30 | 10 | 75.00% | -6.65 |
Tampa Bay Devil Rays | 2001 | 62 | 100 | .383 | 5 | 30 | 45 | 23 | 41 | 12 | 77.36% | 0.83 |
Milwaukee Brewers | 2002 | 56 | 106 | .346 | 6 | 32 | 50 | 33 | 38 | 3 | 92.68% | -0.53 |
Montreal Expos | 1974 | 79 | 82 | .491 | 4 | 27 | 52 | 25 | 52 | 10 | 83.87% | 9.56 |
San Diego Padres | 1981 | 41 | 69 | .373 | 6 | 23 | 53 | 16 | 26 | 3 | 89.66% | 0.49 |
Seattle Mariners | 1979 | 67 | 95 | .414 | 6 | 26 | 54 | 18 | 44 | 8 | 84.62% | -4.59 |
Detroit Tigers | 2003 | 43 | 119 | .265 | 5 | 27 | 57 | 26 | 29 | 7 | 80.56% | -6.27 |
Houston Astros | 1991 | 65 | 97 | .401 | 6 | 36 | 57 | 12 | 40 | 10 | 80.00% | -1.71 |
Oakland Athletics | 1981 | 64 | 45 | .587 | 1 | 10 | 57 | 26 | 43 | 10 | 81.13% | -1.19 |
Minnesota Twins | 2004 | 92 | 70 | .568 | 1 | 48 | 60 | 45 | 58 | 8 | 87.88% | 9.38 |
Tampa Bay Devil Rays | 2002 | 55 | 106 | .342 | 5 | 25 | 60 | 42 | 33 | 11 | 75.00% | -9.62 |
Minnesota Twins | 2000 | 69 | 93 | .426 | 5 | 35 | 60 | 18 | 46 | 7 | 86.79% | 7.95 |
Oakland Athletics | 1980 | 83 | 79 | .512 | 2 | 13 | 60 | 31 | 62 | 11 | 84.93% | -5.85 |
Now, here are the teams that did the best at retaining a lead after six innings:
Team | Yr | W | L | PCT | POS | Team SV | Career SV | Max Career SV | Leads Kept | Leads Lost | Lead Pct | Relief Wins |
Cleveland Indians | 1954 | 111 | 43 | .721 | 1 | 36 | 156 | 26 | 76 | 1 | 98.70% | 6.93 |
Brooklyn Dodgers | 1952 | 96 | 57 | .627 | 1 | 24 | 82 | 18 | 59 | 1 | 98.33% | 1.63 |
Brooklyn Dodgers | 1940 | 88 | 65 | .575 | 2 | 14 | 122 | 22 | 55 | 1 | 98.21% | -0.20 |
Brooklyn Dodgers | 1942 | 104 | 50 | .675 | 2 | 24 | 146 | 26 | 76 | 2 | 97.44% | 3.12 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 2001 | 93 | 69 | .574 | 2 | 38 | 288 | 114 | 75 | 2 | 97.40% | 2.69 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 1942 | 106 | 48 | .688 | 1 | 15 | 78 | 15 | 75 | 2 | 97.40% | 4.26 |
New York Yankees | 1946 | 87 | 67 | .565 | 3 | 17 | 157 | 104 | 65 | 2 | 97.01% | -3.22 |
New York Giants | 1935 | 91 | 62 | .595 | 3 | 11 | 84 | 28 | 65 | 2 | 97.01% | -3.17 |
Cincinnati Reds | 1901 | 52 | 87 | .374 | 8 | 0 | 13 | 5 | 32 | 1 | 96.97% | -3.19 |
New York Mets | 1969 | 100 | 62 | .617 | 1 | 35 | 115 | 57 | 63 | 2 | 96.92% | 0.45 |
Detroit Tigers | 1973 | 85 | 77 | .525 | 3 | 46 | 232 | 54 | 58 | 2 | 96.67% | 6.09 |
New York Yankees | 1980 | 103 | 59 | .636 | 1 | 50 | 272 | 134 | 72 | 3 | 96.00% | 8.26 |
Now, here are the bullpens with the most Relief Wins:
Team | Yr | W | L | PCT | POS | Team SV | Career SV | Max Career SV | Leads Kept | Leads Lost | Lead Pct | Relief Wins |
Los Angeles Dodgers | 2003 | 85 | 77 | .525 | 2 | 58 | 169 | 107 | 58 | 4 | 93.55% | 17.53 |
Atlanta Braves | 2002 | 101 | 59 | .631 | 1 | 57 | 194 | 65 | 74 | 4 | 94.87% | 16.90 |
Minnesota Twins | 2006 | 96 | 66 | .593 | 1 | 40 | 136 | 124 | 64 | 4 | 94.12% | 16.52 |
Texas Rangers | 2004 | 89 | 73 | .549 | 3 | 52 | 174 | 74 | 63 | 5 | 92.65% | 15.80 |
Oakland Athletics | 1990 | 103 | 59 | .636 | 1 | 64 | 242 | 145 | 75 | 4 | 94.94% | 15.21 |
Cleveland Indians | 2005 | 93 | 69 | .574 | 2 | 51 | 324 | 214 | 66 | 6 | 91.67% | 14.98 |
New York Mets | 2006 | 97 | 65 | .599 | 1 | 43 | 794 | 326 | 67 | 4 | 94.37% | 14.49 |
Cleveland Indians | 1995 | 100 | 44 | .694 | 1 | 50 | 327 | 164 | 65 | 6 | 91.55% | 14.16 |
Boston Red Sox | 1982 | 89 | 73 | .549 | 3 | 33 | 193 | 96 | 56 | 7 | 88.89% | 13.22 |
Cincinnati Reds | 1999 | 96 | 67 | .589 | 2 | 55 | 187 | 78 | 69 | 12 | 85.19% | 12.66 |
Houston Astros | 2003 | 87 | 75 | .537 | 2 | 50 | 306 | 225 | 64 | 11 | 85.33% | 12.55 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 2004 | 105 | 57 | .648 | 1 | 57 | 259 | 177 | 71 | 7 | 91.03% | 12.34 |
Anaheim Angels | 2003 | 77 | 85 | .475 | 3 | 39 | 307 | 283 | 55 | 3 | 94.83% | 12.22 |
Minnesota Twins | 2005 | 83 | 79 | .512 | 3 | 44 | 101 | 88 | 50 | 6 | 89.29% | 12.22 |
Anaheim Angels | 2002 | 99 | 63 | .611 | 2 | 54 | 285 | 250 | 69 | 6 | 92.00% | 12.20 |
Colorado Rockies | 1998 | 77 | 85 | .475 | 4 | 36 | 116 | 48 | 49 | 9 | 84.48% | 11.92 |
Los Angeles Dodgers | 2004 | 93 | 69 | .574 | 1 | 51 | 215 | 152 | 58 | 4 | 93.55% | 11.50 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 1995 | 62 | 81 | .434 | 4 | 38 | 379 | 311 | 43 | 6 | 87.76% | 11.49 |
Colorado Rockies | 2000 | 82 | 80 | .506 | 4 | 33 | 207 | 79 | 50 | 9 | 84.75% | 11.33 |
Boston Red Sox | 2000 | 85 | 77 | .525 | 2 | 46 | 429 | 260 | 58 | 6 | 90.63% | 11.20 |
How well do this stats correlate to each other and to team winning percentages? The short answer is not to well.
The best was lead retention to winning percentage (a 0.601 correlation coefficient), which makes sense because the both deal with winning. Career saves has just about nothing to do with lead retention (0.084), so having an experienced bullpen does not lead to an effective one. Career saves does not correlate to winning percentage (0.132) or Relief Wins (0.247) all that much better.
Then again, having a good bullpen does not necessary lead to winning ballgames. Relief Wins correlate to winning percentage and lead retention a bit better than career saves but it's hardly a strong relationship (0.467 and 0.423).
So what does it mean? A strong bullpen is important, but a strong rotation is even more important. Speaking of which, why is Brett Myers, the non-100 save closer for the Phils, still the closer? Wouldn't the Phils be better off with the former starter back in the rotation instead of Adam Eaton or Kyle Lohse?
Then again nothing about this team makes all that much sense to me including their current winning ways with half the team including the best second baseman in baseball, Chase Utley, on the DL. And now it looks like the players are campaigning for Charlie "I Need Friggin'" Manuel to retain his job according to a report in the Metro. Then again with the execrable Dave Montgomery running the team and the somnolent, semi-retired GM Pat Gillick making infuriating transaction after infuriating transaction, what does it matter who pilots the team on the field?
Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.