Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
If you didn't like lat night's All-Star Game, you are just not a baseball fan.
The game abounded with weird bounces and odd caroms. It boasted purportedly the event's first ever inside-the-park home run, by the game MVP Ichiro Suzuki. It ended with a rally that brought the NL within one run with the bases loaded and two outs. Of course, it was a Phillie (Aaron Rowand) who flied out to end the game, but how often do you find yourself at the edge of your seat at the end of a (relatively) meaningless exhibition game? I ever watched the inane Jeannie Zalasko interview of Ichiro by proxy, i.e., via a translator.
They had me before "Hello". The pre-game stuff with Willie Mays, who appeared to be wearing eight to ten layers of sports paraphernalia, being paraded around the ballpark throwing balls to the crowd, I eat that stuff up like a kid in a candy store. They even made that old curmudgeon Ted Williams seem nice and avuncular with a similar event many years ago. Prior to that the snarky Williams was revered but pretty much hated everywhere even in Boston (I lived up there at the time). After that All-Star game he resonated cuteness akin to an ewok with the American public.
Anyway, when we left off the Phils won a game in Colorado to end the first half as they were seemingly destined to do so, at .500. Some time this week or next, the Phillies will not be able to slake the groundskeeper gods by helping the local crew lay down the tarp during a rain delay and will lose a ball game.
It will, of course, mark their much anticipated ten thousandth loss. The Phils will then become the first team to reach this dubious distinction.
And I say So what?
What does such a "record" say about the team? Does it make them the worst in sport? Uh, no, no other sport has played nearly as many games or had the history of baseball. The NFL plays just a tenth the games and wasn't formed until 1920 (as the American Professional Football Association). The NBA has franchises that date back to the Forties prior to the merger of the Basketball Association of America and the National Basketball League which birthed the current-day league, and they play about half as many games. The NHL dates back to 1917 and also plays about half the games that baseball does.
So maybe it says they are the worst in baseball, right? Well, no. To compete with the Phils you would have to have a franchise that started in the nineteenth century and the AL didn't become a major league until 1901, which leaves out half the teams. Consider also that half of the 16 NL clubs originated as expansion teams dating no farther back then 1962.
That leaves eight teams, the NL's original eight. So when the Phils reach this new record, it will say that they were the worst of the original eight. OK, I can live with that, but it seems like much ado about not a whole not. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the sport could probably tell you that.
Below is a breakdown by decade of the teams with the most losses in baseball. The Phils don't register in the top five until after almost forty years as a franchise, in the 1920s. However, the set up residence there for the next three decades sealing their fate. Even though they haven't made the playoffs since 1993, their best decade since the 1910s is the current one.
Rank | Franchise | W | L |
1870s | |||
1 | Cincinnati Reds | 104 | 158 |
2 | Brooklyn Atlantics | 50 | 140 |
3 | New York Mutuals | 151 | 122 |
4 | Chicago Cubs | 154 | 110 |
NA | Philadelphia Phillies | 0 | 0 |
1880s | |||
1 | Baltimore Orioles | 403 | 519 |
2 | Louisville Colonels | 432 | 510 |
3 | Pittsburgh Pirates | 418 | 504 |
4 | Atlanta Braves | 575 | 497 |
5 | Detroit Wolverines | 426 | 437 |
6 | Philadelphia Phillies | 390 | 424 |
1890s | |||
1 | St. Louis Cardinals | 563 | 816 |
2 | Louisville Colonels | 561 | 810 |
3 | Washington Senators | 454 | 788 |
4 | Pittsburgh Pirates | 649 | 723 |
5 | Cleveland Spiders | 677 | 692 |
10 | Philadelphia Phillies | 743 | 629 |
1900s | |||
1 | St. Louis Cardinals | 580 | 888 |
2 | Atlanta Braves | 587 | 877 |
3 | Minnesota Twins | 480 | 833 |
4 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 649 | 809 |
5 | Cincinnati Reds | 705 | 769 |
6 | Philadelphia Phillies | 709 | 752 |
1910s | |||
1 | Baltimore Orioles | 597 | 892 |
2 | St. Louis Cardinals | 652 | 830 |
3 | Atlanta Braves | 666 | 815 |
4 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 696 | 787 |
5 | New York Yankees | 701 | 780 |
11 | Philadelphia Phillies | 762 | 717 |
1920s | |||
1 | Philadelphia Phillies | 566 | 962 |
2 | Boston Red Sox | 595 | 938 |
3 | Atlanta Braves | 603 | 928 |
4 | Chicago White Sox | 731 | 804 |
5 | Detroit Tigers | 760 | 778 |
1930s | |||
1 | Baltimore Orioles | 578 | 951 |
2 | Philadelphia Phillies | 581 | 943 |
3 | Cincinnati Reds | 664 | 866 |
4 | Chicago White Sox | 678 | 841 |
5 | Atlanta Braves | 700 | 829 |
1940s | |||
1 | Philadelphia Phillies | 584 | 951 |
2 | Oakland Athletics | 638 | 898 |
3 | Minnesota Twins | 677 | 858 |
4 | Baltimore Orioles | 698 | 833 |
5 | Chicago White Sox | 707 | 820 |
1950s | |||
1 | Pittsburgh Pirates | 616 | 923 |
2 | Oakland Athletics | 624 | 915 |
3 | Baltimore Orioles | 632 | 905 |
4 | Minnesota Twins | 640 | 898 |
5 | Chicago Cubs | 672 | 866 |
8 | Philadelphia Phillies | 767 | 773 |
1960s | |||
1 | Oakland Athletics | 686 | 922 |
2 | Chicago Cubs | 735 | 868 |
3 | Boston Red Sox | 764 | 845 |
4 | Texas Rangers | 607 | 844 |
5 | Philadelphia Phillies | 759 | 843 |
1970s | |||
1 | San Diego Padres | 667 | 942 |
2 | Atlanta Braves | 725 | 883 |
3 | Milwaukee Brewers | 738 | 873 |
4 | Cleveland Indians | 737 | 866 |
5 | Washington Nationals | 748 | 862 |
15 | Philadelphia Phillies | 812 | 801 |
1980s | |||
1 | Seattle Mariners | 673 | 893 |
2 | Cleveland Indians | 710 | 849 |
3 | Atlanta Braves | 712 | 845 |
4 | Texas Rangers | 720 | 839 |
5 | Minnesota Twins | 733 | 833 |
13 | Philadelphia Phillies | 783 | 780 |
1990s | |||
1 | Detroit Tigers | 702 | 852 |
2 | Minnesota Twins | 718 | 833 |
3 | Kansas City Royals | 725 | 825 |
4 | Philadelphia Phillies | 732 | 823 |
5 | Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim | 738 | 817 |
2000s | |||
1 | Tampa Bay Devil Rays | 481 | 737 |
2 | Kansas City Royals | 501 | 721 |
3 | Pittsburgh Pirates | 524 | 696 |
4 | Detroit Tigers | 533 | 686 |
5 | Baltimore Orioles | 535 | 685 |
17 | Philadelphia Phillies | 620 | 601 |
This is basically a team that has had very few peaks and ones that were not that high while suffering through many abysmally deep and long valleys. Tell me something I don't already know.
The Phils are not the worst team in the majors. Here are the up-to-date standings, worst to best for all active clubs. The Phils rank fifth even with their decades of futility:
Franchise | #Yrs | First | Last | W | L | PCT | W/Yr | L/Yr |
Tampa Bay Devil Rays | 9.5 | 1998 | 2007 | 613 | 929 | .398 | 64.53 | 97.79 |
San Diego Padres | 38.5 | 1969 | 2007 | 2830 | 3286 | .463 | 73.51 | 85.35 |
Colorado Rockies | 14.5 | 1993 | 2007 | 1069 | 1224 | .466 | 73.72 | 84.41 |
Texas Rangers | 46.5 | 1961 | 2007 | 3454 | 3939 | .467 | 74.28 | 84.71 |
Philadelphia Phillies | 124.5 | 1883 | 2007 | 8808 | 9999 | .468 | 70.75 | 80.31 |
Milwaukee Brewers | 38.5 | 1969 | 2007 | 2885 | 3226 | .472 | 74.94 | 83.79 |
Seattle Mariners | 30.5 | 1977 | 2007 | 2276 | 2544 | .472 | 74.62 | 83.41 |
Florida Marlins | 14.5 | 1993 | 2007 | 1083 | 1207 | .473 | 74.69 | 83.24 |
Baltimore Orioles | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 7850 | 8628 | .476 | 73.71 | 81.01 |
New York Mets | 45.5 | 1962 | 2007 | 3456 | 3781 | .478 | 75.96 | 83.10 |
Minnesota Twins | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 7929 | 8557 | .481 | 74.45 | 80.35 |
Washington Nationals | 38.5 | 1969 | 2007 | 2943 | 3167 | .482 | 76.44 | 82.26 |
Oakland Athletics | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8007 | 8456 | .486 | 75.18 | 79.40 |
Kansas City Royals | 38.5 | 1969 | 2007 | 2972 | 3133 | .487 | 77.19 | 81.38 |
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim | 46.5 | 1961 | 2007 | 3649 | 3761 | .492 | 78.47 | 80.88 |
Toronto Blue Jays | 30.5 | 1977 | 2007 | 2388 | 2434 | .495 | 78.30 | 79.80 |
Houston Astros | 45.5 | 1962 | 2007 | 3618 | 3633 | .499 | 79.52 | 79.85 |
Atlanta Braves | 136.5 | 1871 | 2007 | 9884 | 9741 | .504 | 72.41 | 71.36 |
Arizona Diamondbacks | 9.5 | 1998 | 2007 | 775 | 773 | .501 | 81.58 | 81.37 |
Chicago White Sox | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8339 | 8139 | .506 | 78.30 | 76.42 |
Detroit Tigers | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8368 | 8151 | .507 | 78.57 | 76.54 |
Pittsburgh Pirates | 125.5 | 1882 | 2007 | 9596 | 9339 | .507 | 76.46 | 74.41 |
Cincinnati Reds | 125.5 | 1882 | 2007 | 9636 | 9338 | .508 | 76.78 | 74.41 |
Cleveland Indians | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8432 | 8066 | .511 | 79.17 | 75.74 |
Chicago Cubs | 134.5 | 1871 | 2007 | 10021 | 9502 | .513 | 74.51 | 70.65 |
Boston Red Sox | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8497 | 7994 | .515 | 79.78 | 75.06 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 125.5 | 1882 | 2007 | 9805 | 9156 | .517 | 78.13 | 72.96 |
Los Angeles Dodgers | 123.5 | 1884 | 2007 | 9843 | 8932 | .524 | 79.70 | 72.32 |
San Francisco Giants | 124.5 | 1883 | 2007 | 10151 | 8681 | .539 | 81.53 | 69.73 |
New York Yankees | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 9331 | 7137 | .567 | 87.62 | 67.01 |
To put this in perspective, here are the sixteen teams that would exceed 10,000 losses had they played as many seasons as the Phils (124.5):
Franchise | #Yrs | First | Last | W | L | PCT | W/Yr | L/Yr | Active? | W-Proj | L-Proj |
Buffalo Bisons | 1 | 1890 | 1890 | 36 | 96 | .273 | 36.00 | 96.00 | N | 4,482 | 11,952 |
Tampa Bay Devil Rays | 9.5 | 1998 | 2007 | 613 | 929 | .398 | 64.53 | 97.79 | Y | 7,588 | 11,480 |
Kansas City Cowboys | 1 | 1886 | 1886 | 30 | 91 | .248 | 30.00 | 91.00 | N | 3,735 | 11,330 |
Baltimore Terrapins | 2 | 1914 | 1915 | 131 | 177 | .425 | 65.50 | 88.50 | N | 8,155 | 11,018 |
Washington Senators | 9 | 1891 | 1899 | 454 | 788 | .366 | 50.44 | 87.56 | N | 6,280 | 10,901 |
Kansas City Cowboys | 2 | 1888 | 1889 | 98 | 171 | .364 | 49.00 | 85.50 | N | 6,101 | 10,645 |
San Diego Padres | 38.5 | 1969 | 2007 | 2830 | 3286 | .463 | 73.51 | 85.35 | Y | 8,993 | 10,503 |
Washington Nationals | 4 | 1886 | 1889 | 163 | 337 | .326 | 40.75 | 84.25 | N | 5,073 | 10,489 |
Texas Rangers | 46.5 | 1961 | 2007 | 3454 | 3939 | .467 | 74.28 | 84.71 | Y | 9,146 | 10,412 |
Indianapolis Hoosiers | 3 | 1887 | 1889 | 146 | 249 | .370 | 48.67 | 83.00 | N | 6,059 | 10,334 |
Milwaukee Brewers | 38.5 | 1969 | 2007 | 2885 | 3226 | .472 | 74.94 | 83.79 | Y | 9,171 | 10,306 |
New York Mets | 45.5 | 1962 | 2007 | 3456 | 3781 | .478 | 75.96 | 83.10 | Y | 9,325 | 10,239 |
Seattle Mariners | 30.5 | 1977 | 2007 | 2276 | 2544 | .472 | 74.62 | 83.41 | Y | 9,091 | 10,238 |
Colorado Rockies | 14.5 | 1993 | 2007 | 1069 | 1224 | .466 | 73.72 | 84.41 | Y | 8,801 | 10,132 |
Washington Nationals | 38.5 | 1969 | 2007 | 2943 | 3167 | .482 | 76.44 | 82.26 | Y | 9,401 | 10,073 |
Baltimore Orioles | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 7850 | 8628 | .476 | 73.71 | 81.01 | Y | 9,132 | 10,029 |
To further illustrate how the Phils are doomed by their pre-Whiz kid failings, here are the breakdowns for all active franchises before and after 1950:
Before 1950:
Franchise | W | L | PCT | Yrs | First | Last |
Atlanta Braves | 5120 | 5420 | .486 | 79 | 1871 | 1949 |
Philadelphia Phillies | 4335 | 5378 | .446 | 67 | 1883 | 1949 |
Cincinnati Reds | 4929 | 4953 | .499 | 68 | 1882 | 1949 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 5064 | 4814 | .513 | 68 | 1882 | 1949 |
Los Angeles Dodgers | 4870 | 4801 | .504 | 66 | 1884 | 1949 |
Pittsburgh Pirates | 5186 | 4666 | .526 | 68 | 1882 | 1949 |
Chicago Cubs | 5769 | 4672 | .553 | 77 | 1871 | 1949 |
San Francisco Giants | 5408 | 4322 | .556 | 67 | 1883 | 1949 |
Baltimore Orioles | 3234 | 4166 | .437 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
Minnesota Twins | 3510 | 3885 | .475 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
Oakland Athletics | 3575 | 3789 | .485 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
Chicago White Sox | 3658 | 3732 | .495 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
Boston Red Sox | 3702 | 3694 | .501 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
Cleveland Indians | 3849 | 3567 | .519 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
Detroit Tigers | 3885 | 3535 | .524 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
New York Yankees | 4171 | 3216 | .565 | 49 | 1901 | 1949 |
After 1950:
Franchise | W | L | PCT | Yrs | First | Last |
Chicago Cubs | 4208 | 4787 | .468 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Minnesota Twins | 4374 | 4629 | .486 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Pittsburgh Pirates | 4370 | 4625 | .486 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Oakland Athletics | 4388 | 4623 | .487 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Detroit Tigers | 4431 | 4582 | .492 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Philadelphia Phillies | 4429 | 4577 | .492 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Cleveland Indians | 4531 | 4463 | .504 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Baltimore Orioles | 4578 | 4413 | .509 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Chicago White Sox | 4642 | 4360 | .516 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Cincinnati Reds | 4671 | 4333 | .519 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
San Francisco Giants | 4705 | 4311 | .522 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 4701 | 4297 | .522 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Atlanta Braves | 4717 | 4279 | .524 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Boston Red Sox | 4742 | 4266 | .526 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Los Angeles Dodgers | 4924 | 4091 | .546 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
Texas Rangers | 3416 | 3889 | .468 | 46 | 1961 | 2006 |
New York Yankees | 5118 | 3878 | .569 | 57 | 1950 | 2006 |
New York Mets | 3408 | 3742 | .477 | 45 | 1962 | 2006 |
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim | 3596 | 3726 | .491 | 46 | 1961 | 2006 |
Houston Astros | 3579 | 3583 | .500 | 45 | 1962 | 2006 |
San Diego Padres | 2781 | 3248 | .461 | 38 | 1969 | 2006 |
Milwaukee Brewers | 2836 | 3187 | .471 | 38 | 1969 | 2006 |
Washington Nationals | 2907 | 3115 | .483 | 38 | 1969 | 2006 |
Kansas City Royals | 2934 | 3083 | .488 | 38 | 1969 | 2006 |
Seattle Mariners | 2227 | 2508 | .470 | 30 | 1977 | 2006 |
Toronto Blue Jays | 2345 | 2390 | .495 | 30 | 1977 | 2006 |
Colorado Rockies | 1025 | 1180 | .465 | 14 | 1993 | 2006 |
Florida Marlins | 1041 | 1160 | .473 | 14 | 1993 | 2006 |
Tampa Bay Devil Rays | 579 | 876 | .398 | 9 | 1998 | 2006 |
Arizona Diamondbacks | 728 | 730 | .499 | 9 | 1998 | 2006 |
Even though it is organized baseball second city (after NYC), Philly's baseball image is further besmirched by some of the lesser A's teams from a Connie Mack housecleaning. Here are the most losses by city all time (actually through 2006):
City | ST | #Tm-Yrs | First | Last | W | L | PCT | W/Yr | L/Yr |
Chicago | IL | 244 | 1871 | 2006 | 18566 | 17796 | .511 | 76.09 | 72.93 |
New York | NY | 236 | 1871 | 2006 | 19162 | 16104 | .543 | 81.19 | 68.24 |
Philadelphia | PA | 200 | 1871 | 2006 | 13655 | 15096 | .475 | 68.28 | 75.48 |
St. Louis | MO | 186 | 1875 | 2006 | 13617 | 13997 | .493 | 73.21 | 75.25 |
Boston | MA | 191 | 1871 | 2006 | 14019 | 13759 | .505 | 73.40 | 72.04 |
Cincinnati | OH | 132 | 1876 | 2006 | 9837 | 9596 | .506 | 74.52 | 72.70 |
Pittsburgh | PA | 129 | 1882 | 2006 | 9807 | 9562 | .506 | 76.02 | 74.12 |
Cleveland | OH | 128 | 1871 | 2006 | 9520 | 9377 | .504 | 74.38 | 73.26 |
Detroit | MI | 114 | 1881 | 2006 | 8742 | 8554 | .505 | 76.68 | 75.04 |
Washington | DC | 91 | 1871 | 1971 | 5669 | 7224 | .440 | 62.30 | 79.38 |
Brooklyn | NY | 83 | 1872 | 1957 | 5926 | 5734 | .508 | 71.40 | 69.08 |
Baltimore | MD | 80 | 1872 | 2006 | 5868 | 5536 | .515 | 73.35 | 69.20 |
Philadelphia still comes in no worse than 12th on the all-time losing, rather than winning, percentage (for cities with at least five seasons):
City | ST | #Tm-Yrs | First | Last | W | L | PCT | W/Yr | L/Yr |
Tampa-St. Petersburg | FL | 9 | 1998 | 2006 | 579 | 876 | .398 | 64.33 | 97.33 |
Indianapolis | IN | 6 | 1878 | 1914 | 287 | 428 | .401 | 47.83 | 71.33 |
Troy | NY | 6 | 1871 | 1882 | 162 | 216 | .429 | 27.00 | 36.00 |
Louisville | KY | 20 | 1876 | 1899 | 1058 | 1381 | .434 | 52.90 | 69.05 |
Washington | DC | 91 | 1871 | 1971 | 5669 | 7224 | .440 | 62.30 | 79.38 |
Kansas City | MO | 57 | 1884 | 2006 | 4055 | 4788 | .459 | 71.14 | 84.00 |
San Diego | CA | 38 | 1969 | 2006 | 2781 | 3248 | .461 | 73.18 | 85.47 |
Denver | CO | 14 | 1993 | 2006 | 1025 | 1180 | .465 | 73.21 | 84.29 |
Buffalo | NY | 10 | 1879 | 1915 | 504 | 578 | .466 | 50.40 | 57.80 |
Seattle | WA | 31 | 1969 | 2006 | 2291 | 2606 | .468 | 73.90 | 84.06 |
Miami | FL | 14 | 1993 | 2006 | 1041 | 1160 | .473 | 74.36 | 82.86 |
Philadelphia | PA | 200 | 1871 | 2006 | 13655 | 15096 | .475 | 68.28 | 75.48 |
Oddly, two teams, the Giants and Cubs, are already over 10,000 wins and yet I don't remember all that much hoopla surrounding that achievement for either teams. The Dodgers should reach the milestone some time next year and the Cards soon after. Here are the original 16 ranked by wins:
Franchise | #Yrs | First | Last | W | L | PCT | W/Yr | L/Yr |
San Francisco Giants | 124.5 | 1883 | 2007 | 10151 | 8681 | .539 | 81.53 | 69.73 |
Chicago Cubs | 134.5 | 1871 | 2007 | 10021 | 9502 | .513 | 74.51 | 70.65 |
Atlanta Braves | 136.5 | 1871 | 2007 | 9884 | 9741 | .504 | 72.41 | 71.36 |
Los Angeles Dodgers | 123.5 | 1884 | 2007 | 9843 | 8932 | .524 | 79.70 | 72.32 |
St. Louis Cardinals | 125.5 | 1882 | 2007 | 9805 | 9156 | .517 | 78.13 | 72.96 |
Cincinnati Reds | 125.5 | 1882 | 2007 | 9636 | 9338 | .508 | 76.78 | 74.41 |
Pittsburgh Pirates | 125.5 | 1882 | 2007 | 9596 | 9339 | .507 | 76.46 | 74.41 |
New York Yankees | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 9331 | 7137 | .567 | 87.62 | 67.01 |
Philadelphia Phillies | 124.5 | 1883 | 2007 | 8808 | 9999 | .468 | 70.75 | 80.31 |
Boston Red Sox | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8497 | 7994 | .515 | 79.78 | 75.06 |
Cleveland Indians | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8432 | 8066 | .511 | 79.17 | 75.74 |
Detroit Tigers | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8368 | 8151 | .507 | 78.57 | 76.54 |
Chicago White Sox | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8339 | 8139 | .506 | 78.30 | 76.42 |
Oakland Athletics | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 8007 | 8456 | .486 | 75.18 | 79.40 |
Minnesota Twins | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 7929 | 8557 | .481 | 74.45 | 80.35 |
Baltimore Orioles | 106.5 | 1901 | 2007 | 7850 | 8628 | .476 | 73.71 | 81.01 |
The Cubs 10K win came June 3 in a 10-1 win at Wrigley over the Braves. The Giants reached 10K on July 14, 2005 when, appropriately, they beat the Dodgers 4-2 in LA.
For the old Browns, look under the Baltimore Orioles. They are the same franchise.
Scott de B,
The Cubs started as the White Stockings in the National Association in 1871. They took two years off for the Great Chicago Fire. Returned in 1874 and moved on to the NL in 1876. They have over 10000 wins as a team.
And I always love hearing Baltimore fans piss and moan about Irsay and the Colts being "stolen" by another city after they did the same thing.
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