Baseball Toaster: Mike's Baseball Rants : Katzenjammer Kids Keystone Kombinations

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Katzenjammer Kids Keystone Kombinations

2006-03-28 20:59

by Mike Carminati

The Padres handed the second base job to youngster Josh Barfield today. It's not a big surprise given that his competition was an aging Mark Bellhorn and the gapping hole created by unloading Mark Loretta had his name all over it. It does tick me off to have the son of a player who I remember as a rookie (Jesse Barfield, that is) be a rookie himself, but I sometimes forget the world doesn't revolve around me.

Anyway, this gives the Pod People a doubleplay duo, Khalil Greene (26) and Barfield (23), under the age of 27. It made me wonder how often that had happened and what one can expect from two such youngsters.

Well, this will mark the 330th time in baseball history that a team's starting second baseman and shortstop are both under 27, and it's the first time since 2000.

Here are the best of the lot ranked by career Win Shares for the two individuals. Many of the top keystone combos ready come to mind. Some are celebrated in song:

Team	2B	Age	Career WS	SS	Age	Career WS	#yrs	First Yr	Last Yr	Total WS
Milwaukee Brewers	Paul Molitor	21	414	Robin Yount	22	421	3	1978	1980	835
Cincinnati Reds	Pete Rose	22	547	Leo Cardenas	24	199	3	1963	1965	746
Philadelphia Athletics	Eddie Collins	22	572	Jack Barry	22	132	5	1909	1913	704
Detroit Tigers	Lou Whitaker	21	354	Alan Trammell	20	317	6	1978	1983	671
Washington Senators	Buddy Myer	25	257	Joe Cronin	22	334	2	1929	1930	591
New York Giants	Frankie Frisch	25	366	Travis Jackson	20	211	1	1924	1924	577
Houston Astros	Joe Morgan	22	513	Sonny Jackson	21	61	2	1966	1967	574
St. Louis Cardinals	Rogers Hornsby	26	503	Specs Toporcer	23	43	1	1922	1922	546
Chicago Colts	Bill Lange	22	139	Bill Dahlen	23	392	1	1893	1893	531
Chicago Cubs	Johnny Evers	21	268	Joe Tinker	22	258	5	1903	1907	526
Chicago Cubs	Ryne Sandberg	25	345	Shawon Dunston	22	151	2	1985	1986	496
Baltimore Orioles	Billy Ripken	22	53	Cal Ripken	26	427	1	1987	1987	480
New York Yankees	Joe Gordon	26	241	Phil Rizzuto	23	231	1	1941	1941	472
Boston Red Sox	Bobby Doerr	24	282	Johnny Pesky	22	188	1	1942	1942	470
Chicago Cubs	Billy Herman	22	298	Billy Jurges	24	170	3	1932	1934	468
Pittsburgh Pirates	Cookie Lavagetto	21	107	Arky Vaughan	22	356	1	1934	1934	463
Chicago White Sox	Jackie Hayes	25	76	Luke Appling	25	377	2	1932	1933	453
Milwaukee Brewers	Pedro Garcia	24	29	Robin Yount	18	421	2	1974	1975	450
Milwaukee Brewers	Tim Johnson	26	21	Robin Yount	20	421	1	1976	1976	442
Pittsburgh Pirates	Bill Mazeroski	19	218	Dick Groat	25	223	2	1956	1957	441
Cleveland Blues	Germany Smith	21	175	Jack Glasscock	24	261	1	1884	1884	436
Chicago White Sox	Nellie Fox	22	304	Chico Carrasquel	22	131	5	1950	1954	435
Pittsburgh Pirates	Lee Handley	23	79	Arky Vaughan	25	356	1	1937	1937	435
Chicago White Stockings	Tom Burns	25	154	King Kelly	24	278	1	1882	1882	432
Chicago Colts	Jim Canavan	25	38	Bill Dahlen	22	392	1	1892	1892	430
Pittsburgh Pirates	Tony Piet	25	72	Arky Vaughan	20	356	2	1932	1933	428
New York Yankees	Willie Randolph	22	311	Bucky Dent	25	116	2	1977	1978	427
Cincinnati Red Stockings	Bid McPhee	25	303	Frank Fennelly	25	123	2	1885	1886	426
Cleveland Blues	Fred Dunlap	21	164	Jack Glasscock	20	261	4	1880	1883	425
New York Giants	Larry Doyle	21	289	Al Bridwell	24	136	3	1908	1910	425
St. Louis Maroons	Fred Dunlap	26	164	Jack Glasscock	25	261	1	1885	1885	425
St. Louis Cardinals	Bill Keister	25	78	Bobby Wallace	26	346	1	1900	1900	424
Minnesota Twins	Rod Carew	26	385	Danny Thompson	25	33	1	1972	1972	418
Brooklyn Dodgers	Tony Cuccinello	26	204	Lonny Frey	23	209	1	1934	1934	413
Louisville Colonels	Claude Ritchey	24	205	Claude Ritchey	24	205	1	1898	1898	410
Chicago Colts	Jiggs Parrott	22	13	Bill Dahlen	24	392	1	1894	1894	405
Toronto Blue Jays	Roberto Alomar	23	345	Manuel Lee	26	60	1	1991	1991	405
Detroit Tigers	Charlie Gehringer	26	382	Heinie Schuble	22	18	1	1929	1929	400
Overall Average			102			110	1.33			212

The average combo ended with 212 Win Shares, 102 for the second baseman and 110 for the shortstop, not too shabby.

Keep in mind that the year ranges reflect the years in which both men were under 27, but just for the heck of it, let's see who were together for the longest time in their youth or as Joe Pesci would say their yute:

Team	2B	Age	Career WS	SS	Age	Career WS	#yrs	First Yr	Last Yr	Total WS
Detroit Tigers	Lou Whitaker	21	354	Alan Trammell	20	317	6	1978	1983	671
Philadelphia Athletics	Eddie Collins	22	572	Jack Barry	22	132	5	1909	1913	704
Chicago Cubs	Johnny Evers	21	268	Joe Tinker	22	258	5	1903	1907	526
Chicago White Sox	Nellie Fox	22	304	Chico Carrasquel	22	131	5	1950	1954	435
Cleveland Blues	Fred Dunlap	21	164	Jack Glasscock	20	261	4	1880	1883	425
Cleveland Indians	Ray Mack	23	56	Lou Boudreau	22	276	4	1940	1943	332
Atlanta Braves	Glenn Hubbard	23	141	Rafael Ramirez	23	113	4	1981	1984	254
Milwaukee Brewers	Paul Molitor	21	414	Robin Yount	22	421	3	1978	1980	835
Cincinnati Reds	Pete Rose	22	547	Leo Cardenas	24	199	3	1963	1965	746
Chicago Cubs	Billy Herman	22	298	Billy Jurges	24	170	3	1932	1934	468
New York Giants	Larry Doyle	21	289	Al Bridwell	24	136	3	1908	1910	425
Detroit Tigers	Frank Bolling	22	142	Harvey Kuenn	23	223	3	1954	1957	365
New York Yankees	Tony Lazzeri	22	251	Mark Koenig	21	103	3	1926	1928	354
Philadelphia Athletics	Jimmie Dykes	23	243	Chick Galloway	23	70	3	1920	1923	313
Boston Red Sox	Mike Andrews	23	108	Rico Petrocelli	24	203	3	1967	1969	311
Minnesota Twins	Chuck Knoblauch	24	230	Pat Meares	24	63	3	1993	1995	293
Chicago Cubs	Glenn Beckert	24	125	Don Kessinger	22	157	3	1965	1967	282
New York Mets	Gregg Jefferies	21	161	Kevin Elster	24	86	3	1989	1991	247
New York Yankees	Bobby Richardson	23	120	Tony Kubek	22	120	3	1959	1961	240
Minnesota Twins	Bernie Allen	23	93	Zoilo Versalles	22	132	3	1962	1964	225
Atlanta Braves	Felix Millan	24	152	Sonny Jackson	23	61	3	1968	1970	213
Pittsburgh Pirates	Rennie Stennett	23	118	Frank Taveras	24	85	3	1974	1976	203
Cincinnati Reds	Alex Kampouris	22	57	Billy Myers	24	79	3	1935	1937	136
Montreal Expos	Jose Vidro	24	59	Orlando Cabrera	24	49	3	1999	2001	108
Boston Red Stockings	Ross Barnes	21	42	George Wright	24	51	3	1871	1873	93
Florida Marlins	Luis Castillo	23	55	Alex Gonzalez	22	24	3	1999	2001	79

Even though there has not been a keystone combo under 27 since 2000, there was a spate of them in the late Nineties. For those scoring at home, there is a Jay Canizaro sighting, and I had to go back the Steve Jeltz days in Philly:

Team	2B	Age	Career WS	SS	Age	Career WS	#yrs	First Yr	Last Yr	Total WS
Minnesota Twins	Jay Canizaro	26	10	Cristian Guzman	22	35	1	2000	2000	45
Tampa Bay Devil Rays	Miguel Cairo	26	34	Felix Martinez	26	10	1	2000	2000	44
Montreal Expos	Jose Vidro	24	59	Orlando Cabrera	24	49	3	1999	2001	108
Florida Marlins	Luis Castillo	23	55	Alex Gonzalez	22	24	3	1999	2001	79
Seattle Mariners	David Bell	26	53	Alex Rodriguez	23	185	1	1999	1999	238
Toronto Blue Jays	Homer Bush	26	32	Tony Batista	25	72	1	1999	1999	104
St. Louis Cardinals	Joe McEwing	26	21	Edgar Renteria	23	82	1	1999	1999	103
Minnesota Twins	Todd Walker	26	48	Cristian Guzman	21	35	1	1999	1999	83
Chicago White Sox	Ray Durham	26	124	Mike Caruso	21	17	1	1998	1998	141
Oakland Athletics	Scott Spiezio	25	44	Miguel Tejada	22	77	1	1998	1998	121
San Diego Padres	Quilvio Veras	26	95	Chris Gomez	26	65	1	1997	1997	160
Florida Marlins	Luis Castillo	21	55	Edgar Renteria	21	82	1	1997	1997	137
Florida Marlins	Quilvio Veras	25	95	Edgar Renteria	20	82	1	1996	1996	177
Detroit Tigers	Mark Lewis	26	59	Andujar Cedeno	26	42	1	1996	1996	101
Toronto Blue Jays	Tomas Perez	22	12	Alex Gonzalez	23	74	1	1996	1996	86
Milwaukee Brewers	Fernando Vina	26	106	Jose Valentin	25	116	1	1995	1995	222
Florida Marlins	Quilvio Veras	24	95	Kurt Abbott	26	48	1	1995	1995	143
Los Angeles Dodgers	Delino DeShields	25	184	Jose Offerman	25	144	2	1994	1995	328
New York Mets	Jeff Kent	26	198	Jose Vizcaino	26	97	1	1994	1994	295
Montreal Expos	Mike Lansing	26	109	Wil Cordero	22	85	1	1994	1994	194
Florida Marlins	Bret Barberie	26	40	Kurt Abbott	25	48	1	1994	1994	88
Minnesota Twins	Chuck Knoblauch	24	230	Pat Meares	24	63	3	1993	1995	293
Montreal Expos	Delino DeShields	24	184	Wil Cordero	21	85	1	1993	1993	269
Colorado Rockies	Eric Young	26	132	Vinny Castilla	25	113	1	1993	1993	245
New York Mets	Jeff Kent	25	198	Tim Bogar	26	34	1	1993	1993	232
Houston Astros	Craig Biggio	26	342	Andujar Cedeno	22	42	1	1992	1992	384
Cleveland Indians	Carlos Baerga	23	147	Mark Lewis	22	59	1	1992	1992	206
Philadelphia Phillies	Mickey Morandini	26	119	Juan Bell	24	16	1	1992	1992	135
Toronto Blue Jays	Roberto Alomar	23	345	Manuel Lee	26	60	1	1991	1991	405
Kansas City Royals	Terry Shumpert	24	37	Kurt Stillwell	26	73	1	1991	1991	110
New York Mets	Gregg Jefferies	21	161	Kevin Elster	24	86	3	1989	1991	247
Pittsburgh Pirates	Jose Lind	25	81	Jay Bell	23	243	2	1989	1990	324
Cleveland Indians	Jerry Browne	23	81	Felix Fermin	25	50	2	1989	1990	131
Atlanta Braves	Jeff Treadway	26	61	Andres Thomas	25	23	1	1989	1989	84
Cincinnati Reds	Jeff Treadway	25	61	Barry Larkin	24	321	1	1988	1988	382
Toronto Blue Jays	Manuel Lee	23	60	Tony Fernandez	26	278	1	1988	1988	338
Atlanta Braves	Ron Gant	23	195	Andres Thomas	24	23	1	1988	1988	218
Pittsburgh Pirates	Jose Lind	24	81	Rafael Belliard	26	36	1	1988	1988	117
Chicago White Sox	Fred Manrique	25	31	Ozzie Guillen	23	148	2	1987	1988	179
Baltimore Orioles	Billy Ripken	22	53	Cal Ripken	26	427	1	1987	1987	480
California Angels	Mark McLemore	22	136	Dick Schofield	24	116	1	1987	1987	252
Seattle Mariners	Harold Reynolds	26	122	Rey Quinones	23	31	1	1987	1987	153
Milwaukee Brewers	Juan Castillo	25	8	Dale Sveum	23	53	1	1987	1987	61
Seattle Mariners	Harold Reynolds	25	122	Spike Owen	25	121	1	1986	1986	243
Minnesota Twins	Steve Lombardozzi	26	31	Greg Gagne	24	157	1	1986	1986	188
Chicago Cubs	Ryne Sandberg	25	345	Shawon Dunston	22	151	2	1985	1986	496
Los Angeles Dodgers	Steve Sax	25	198	Mariano Duncan	22	114	2	1985	1986	312
Minnesota Twins	Tim Teufel	26	98	Greg Gagne	23	157	1	1985	1985	255
Philadelphia Phillies	Juan Samuel	24	175	Steve Jeltz	26	37	1	1985	1985	212

Comments

2006-03-29 05:32:39

1. mattapp

>> Even though there has not been a keystone combo under 27 since 2000

Ummm... weren't Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley both under 27 in 2005?

2006-03-29 06:28:21

2. Mike Carminati

Dang, I had a subquery that truncated the more recent data. I'll update the table later.

2006-03-29 11:37:31

3. Brent is a Dodger Fan

Curious as to why you are looking at career win shares between such players, especially when tenure together is so brief. Isn't the relevant issue for the Pods, or any other fans of youth-movements, is what kind of great performances we've seen by young middle-infielder combos? (When they were young, that is).

Your statement about the average combo strikes me strangely: Robin Yount + (some young 2B) shows up three times, and as such, the CWS for Robin Yount of 421 repeats three times in your sample. Arky Vaughn twice. Paul Molitor and Pete Rose's CWS are shown, though they didn't earn all of them at 2B, and certainly accumulated much of their CWS past 27. These having an impact on your average.

2006-03-29 12:37:23

4. PhillyJ

I can die in peace now that I have seen Juan Bell and Steve Jeltz in the same table.

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