Baseball Toaster: Mike's Baseball Rants : The Best in (The) Show, II

This is my site with my opinions, but I hope that, like Irish Spring, you like it, too.

About the Toaster

Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.

Frozen Toast

Catfish Stew
And So To Fade Away

Fairpole
Baseball Toaster To Be Unplugged, Disassembled For Scraps

Cub Town
Fade to Black

Humbug
My Final Take-It-Or-Leave-It Offer

The Juice
Official Moving Day is Here

Cardboard Gods
Reggie Jackson, 1976

The Griddle
You did a good job, but it's time to go

Dodger Thoughts
Cheers

Bad Altitude
Pitcher News; I Dump My Tickets

Mike's Baseball Rants
The State of the Hall 2009

Bronx Banter
Movin' On

Just a Bit Outside
And We're Off!

Toaster.TV blogs
Western Homes
Screen Jam
Tin Ear
Aesthetics

Archives

2009
01

2008
10 09 07
06 05 04 03

2007
12 11 10 09 08 07
06 05 04 03 02 01

2006
12 11 10 09 08 07
06 05 04 03 02 01

2005
12 11 10 09 08 07
06 05 04 03 02 01

2004
12 11 10 09 08 07
06 05 04 03 02 01

2003
12 11 10 09 08 07
06 05 04 03 02 01

2002
12 11 10 09 08 07

Links to MBBR

The Best in (The) Show, II

2005-09-14 21:54

by Mike Carminati

Regarding my post on the best player in the game, my Toaster-mate Cliff "Don't Call Me Tim" Corcoran said:

I think you place too much emphasis on career achievement here, thus you get Ott, not Williams or DiMaggio in '41. Cobb and not Ruth in '21. And, just eyeballing it, no triple crown winners in the years they actually won the thing.
The way I see it, the best player in the game should be a player that's at the peak of his abilities, not one on the down slope, as so often occurs in your chart.
Prior to the 2004 season I tried to determine the best player in the game (obviously it was Bonds) in an article about Alex Rodriguez (linked on the Bronx Banter sidebar), and my method was to use the previous three seasons, but no more. I wonder how this chart would change if you used a similar short-term system.

So on Cliff's advice, I ran the numbers for three- and five-year periods. For the given year, I looked at the player with the most Win Shares for that season and the previous two (or four for the five-year approach). I also imposed a minimum of ten Win Shares in each of the years for the player to qualify. I just thought that a baseline was necessary.

The three-year leaders are first:

Yr	Win Shares	Career Win Shares	Best	Age
2005	115	176	Albert Pujols	25
2004	141	664	Barry Bonds	39
2003	142	611	Barry Bonds	38
2002	135	572	Barry Bonds	37
2001	105	523	Barry Bonds	36
2001	105	166	Jason Giambi	30
2000	91	288	Jeff Bagwell	32
2000	91	204	Sammy Sosa	31
2000	91	334	Mark McGwire	36
2000	91	129	Jason Giambi	29
1999	104	306	Craig Biggio	33
1998	109	418	Barry Bonds	33
1997	111	384	Barry Bonds	32
1996	100	348	Barry Bonds	31
1995	108	309	Barry Bonds	30
1994	113	273	Barry Bonds	29
1993	125	248	Barry Bonds	28
1992	115	201	Barry Bonds	27
1991	103	179	Will Clark	27
1990	106	145	Will Clark	26
1989	106	120	Will Clark	25
1988	100	208	Wade Boggs	30
1987	102	202	Tim Raines	27
1986	100	168	Tim Raines	26
1985	97	120	Cal Ripken Jr.	24
1985	97	136	Tim Raines	25
1984	99	229	Robin Yount	28
1983	102	341	Mike Schmidt	33
1982	104	306	Mike Schmidt	32
1981	100	269	Mike Schmidt	31
1980	93	239	Mike Schmidt	30
1979	101	160	Dave Parker	28
1978	93	129	Dave Parker	27
1977	111	382	Joe Morgan	33
1976	118	352	Joe Morgan	32
1975	121	315	Joe Morgan	31
1974	116	271	Joe Morgan	30
1973	108	234	Joe Morgan	29
1972	101	123	Bobby Murcer	26
1971	96	575	Hank Aaron	37
1970	106	282	Willie McCovey	32
1969	107	231	Carl Yastrzemski	29
1968	102	205	Carl Yastrzemski	28
1967	101	527	Willie Mays	36
1966	118	506	Willie Mays	35
1965	119	469	Willie Mays	34
1964	117	426	Willie Mays	33
1963	113	388	Willie Mays	32
1962	117	434	Mickey Mantle	30
1961	114	401	Mickey Mantle	29
1960	110	275	Willie Mays	29
1959	120	317	Mickey Mantle	27
1959	106	237	Willie Mays	28
1958	139	287	Mickey Mantle	26
1957	141	248	Mickey Mantle	25
1956	126	197	Mickey Mantle	24
1955	112	218	Duke Snider	28
1955	106	125	Eddie Mathews	23
1954	101	182	Duke Snider	27
1953	109	404	Stan Musial	32
1952	108	371	Stan Musial	31
1951	111	334	Stan Musial	30
1950	118	295	Stan Musial	29
1949	123	322	Ted Williams	30
1948	132	282	Ted Williams	29
1947	95	172	Hal Newhouser	26
1946	106	148	Hal Newhouser	25
1945	91	218	Augie Galan	33
1944	105	108	Stan Musial	23
1943	102	148	Charlie Keller	26
1942	118	150	Ted Williams	23
1941	106	200	Joe DiMaggio	26
1940	95	159	Joe DiMaggio	25
1939	103	128	Joe DiMaggio	24
1938	104	352	Mel Ott	29
1937	109	161	Joe Medwick	25
1936	113	428	Lou Gehrig	33
1935	111	390	Lou Gehrig	32
1934	115	356	Lou Gehrig	31
1933	110	315	Lou Gehrig	30
1933	105	203	Jimmie Foxx	25
1932	113	279	Lou Gehrig	29
1931	108	669	Babe Ruth	36
1930	115	631	Babe Ruth	35
1929	122	593	Babe Ruth	34
1928	135	561	Babe Ruth	33
1927	103	516	Babe Ruth	32
1926	103	471	Babe Ruth	31
1925	113	426	Babe Ruth	30
1924	129	413	Babe Ruth	29
1923	137	368	Babe Ruth	28
1922	133	313	Babe Ruth	27
1921	147	284	Babe Ruth	26
1920	134	231	Babe Ruth	25
1919	119	180	Babe Ruth	24
1918	117	495	Ty Cobb	31
1917	134	464	Ty Cobb	30
1916	122	306	Tris Speaker	28
1915	134	284	Walter Johnson	27
1914	139	242	Walter Johnson	26
1914	132	229	Tris Speaker	26
1913	132	204	Walter Johnson	25
1913	110	203	Eddie Collins	26
1912	132	273	Ty Cobb	25
1911	136	233	Ty Cobb	24
1910	131	508	Honus Wagner	36
1909	145	478	Honus Wagner	35
1908	149	436	Honus Wagner	34
1907	136	377	Honus Wagner	33
1906	135	333	Honus Wagner	32
1905	124	287	Honus Wagner	31
1904	113	241	Honus Wagner	30
1903	117	470	Cy Young	36
1902	106	163	Honus Wagner	28
1901	98	394	Cy Young	34
1900	93	285	Ed Delahanty	32
1900	93	408	Kid Nichols	30
1899	116	390	Kid Nichols	29
1898	118	359	Kid Nichols	28
1897	108	262	Cy Young	30
1897	108	315	Kid Nichols	27
1896	119	234	Cy Young	29
1895	125	243	Amos Rusie	24
1894	129	215	Amos Rusie	23
1893	127	170	Kid Nichols	23
1892	148	165	Bill Hutchison	32
1891	135	334	John Clarkson	30
1890	159	197	Silver King	22
1889	152	153	Silver King	21
1888	157	218	Bob Caruthers	24
1887	162	172	Bob Caruthers	23
1886	160	294	Charley Radbourn	31
1885	188	262	Charley Radbourn	30
1884	199	223	Charley Radbourn	29
1883	139	139	Jim Whitney	25
1882	130	169	Jim McCormick	25
1881	129	153	John Ward	21
1880	131	225	Tommy Bond	24
1879	157	204	Tommy Bond	23
1878	154	154	Tommy Bond	22
1877	113	113	Jim Devlin	28

Next are the five-year leaders:

Yr	Win Shares	Career Win Shares	Best	Age
2005	176	176	Albert Pujols	25
2004	227	664	Barry Bonds	39
2003	193	611	Barry Bonds	38
2002	188	572	Barry Bonds	37
2001	175	523	Barry Bonds	36
2000	164	288	Jeff Bagwell	32
1999	165	306	Craig Biggio	33
1998	170	418	Barry Bonds	33
1997	183	384	Barry Bonds	32
1996	188	348	Barry Bonds	31
1995	186	309	Barry Bonds	30
1994	187	273	Barry Bonds	29
1993	185	248	Barry Bonds	28
1992	168	207	Will Clark	28
1991	165	179	Will Clark	27
1990	153	261	Wade Boggs	32
1989	160	237	Wade Boggs	31
1988	159	208	Wade Boggs	30
1987	163	202	Tim Raines	27
1986	155	424	Mike Schmidt	36
1985	154	393	Mike Schmidt	35
1984	165	367	Mike Schmidt	34
1983	172	341	Mike Schmidt	33
1982	160	306	Mike Schmidt	32
1981	156	269	Mike Schmidt	31
1980	161	239	Mike Schmidt	30
1979	153	231	Ken Singleton	32
1978	165	399	Joe Morgan	34
1977	188	382	Joe Morgan	33
1976	197	352	Joe Morgan	32
1975	189	315	Joe Morgan	31
1974	169	271	Joe Morgan	30
1973	160	299	Pete Rose	32
1972	158	265	Pete Rose	31
1971	164	288	Carl Yastrzemski	31
1970	164	267	Carl Yastrzemski	30
1970	164	282	Willie McCovey	32
1969	162	517	Hank Aaron	35
1968	170	170	Dick Allen	26
1967	177	527	Willie Mays	36
1966	197	506	Willie Mays	35
1965	194	469	Willie Mays	34
1964	189	426	Willie Mays	33
1963	183	322	Hank Aaron	29
1963	183	388	Willie Mays	32
1962	186	434	Mickey Mantle	30
1961	204	401	Mickey Mantle	29
1960	205	353	Mickey Mantle	28
1959	210	317	Mickey Mantle	27
1958	216	287	Mickey Mantle	26
1957	203	248	Mickey Mantle	25
1956	184	197	Mickey Mantle	24
1955	168	463	Stan Musial	34
1954	171	434	Stan Musial	33
1953	181	404	Stan Musial	32
1952	194	371	Stan Musial	31
1952	162	183	Jackie Robinson	33
1951	182	334	Stan Musial	30
1950	191	341	Ted Williams	31
1949	172	322	Ted Williams	30
1948	157	199	Hal Newhouser	27
1947	146	177	Stan Musial	26
1946	149	152	Stan Musial	25
1945	130	159	Bill Nicholson	30
1944	135	142	Lou Boudreau	26
1943	148	148	Charlie Keller	26
1942	168	232	Joe DiMaggio	27
1941	175	200	Joe DiMaggio	26
1940	159	159	Joe DiMaggio	25
1939	167	380	Mel Ott	30
1938	177	352	Mel Ott	29
1937	185	464	Lou Gehrig	34
1936	187	428	Lou Gehrig	33
1935	185	390	Lou Gehrig	32
1934	190	356	Lou Gehrig	31
1933	181	315	Lou Gehrig	30
1932	189	705	Babe Ruth	37
1931	198	669	Babe Ruth	36
1930	205	631	Babe Ruth	35
1929	180	593	Babe Ruth	34
1928	193	561	Babe Ruth	33
1927	203	516	Babe Ruth	32
1926	187	471	Babe Ruth	31
1925	195	426	Babe Ruth	30
1924	233	413	Babe Ruth	29
1923	231	368	Babe Ruth	28
1922	216	313	Babe Ruth	27
1921	223	284	Babe Ruth	26
1920	207	231	Babe Ruth	25
1919	197	527	Ty Cobb	32
1918	191	495	Ty Cobb	31
1917	199	349	Walter Johnson	29
1916	217	320	Walter Johnson	28
1915	212	284	Walter Johnson	27
1914	206	242	Walter Johnson	26
1913	207	304	Ty Cobb	26
1912	212	273	Ty Cobb	25
1911	213	233	Ty Cobb	24
1910	221	508	Honus Wagner	36
1909	237	478	Honus Wagner	35
1908	238	436	Honus Wagner	34
1907	214	377	Honus Wagner	33
1906	205	333	Honus Wagner	32
1905	196	287	Honus Wagner	31
1904	184	241	Honus Wagner	30
1903	174	470	Cy Young	36
1902	170	432	Cy Young	35
1901	166	440	Kid Nichols	31
1900	167	408	Kid Nichols	30
1899	183	390	Kid Nichols	29
1898	189	359	Kid Nichols	28
1897	185	315	Kid Nichols	27
1896	198	234	Cy Young	29
1895	198	241	Kid Nichols	25
1894	207	207	Kid Nichols	24
1893	185	185	Bill Hutchison	33
1892	203	241	Silver King	24
1891	218	334	John Clarkson	30
1890	233	294	Bob Caruthers	26
1889	254	264	Bob Caruthers	25
1888	218	218	Bob Caruthers	24
1887	242	316	Charley Radbourn	32
1886	270	294	Charley Radbourn	31
1885	262	262	Charley Radbourn	30
1884	223	223	Charley Radbourn	29
1884	223	262	Jim McCormick	27
1883	203	209	Jim McCormick	26
1882	184	184	John Ward	22
1881	153	153	John Ward	21
1880	225	225	Tommy Bond	24
1879	204	204	Tommy Bond	23
1878	154	154	Tommy Bond	22

OK, there are a lot of similarities, but I do prefer Pujols to Sheffield for best today. Now let's sum up, shall we.

Yr	5-yr Ldr	3-yr Ldr	Career WS Ldr
2005	Albert Pujols	Albert Pujols	Gary Sheffield
2004	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
2003	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
2002	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
2001	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
2000	Jeff Bagwell	Jason Giambi	Barry Bonds
		Jeff Bagwell
		Sammy Sosa
		Mark McGwire
		Jason Giambi
1999	Craig Biggio	Craig Biggio	Mark McGwire
1998	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
1997	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
1996	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
1995	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
1994	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds
1993	Barry Bonds	Barry Bonds	Rickey Henderson
1992	Will Clark	Barry Bonds	Dave Winfield
1991	Will Clark	Will Clark	Rickey Henderson
1990	Wade Boggs	Will Clark	George Brett
1989	Wade Boggs	Will Clark	Robin Yount
1988	Wade Boggs	Wade Boggs	George Brett
1987	Tim Raines	Tim Raines	Mike Schmidt
1986	Mike Schmidt	Tim Raines	Mike Schmidt
1985	Mike Schmidt	Cal Ripken Jr.	Mike Schmidt
		Tim Raines
1984	Mike Schmidt	Robin Yount	Mike Schmidt
1983	Mike Schmidt	Mike Schmidt	Mike Schmidt
1982	Mike Schmidt	Mike Schmidt	Joe Morgan
1981	Mike Schmidt	Mike Schmidt	Mike Schmidt
1980	Mike Schmidt	Mike Schmidt	Reggie Jackson
1979	Ken Singleton	Dave Parker	Pete Rose
1978	Joe Morgan	Dave Parker	Pete Rose
1977	Joe Morgan	Joe Morgan	Joe Morgan
1976	Joe Morgan	Joe Morgan	Pete Rose
1975	Joe Morgan	Joe Morgan	Pete Rose
1974	Joe Morgan	Joe Morgan	Willie McCovey
1973	Pete Rose	Joe Morgan	Frank Robinson
1972	Pete Rose	Bobby Murcer	Billy Williams
1971	Carl Yastrzemski	Hank Aaron	Willie Mays
1970	Carl Yastrzemski	Willie McCovey	Hank Aaron
1970	Willie McCovey
1969	Hank Aaron	Carl Yastrzemski	Hank Aaron
1968	Dick Allen	Carl Yastrzemski	Willie Mays
1967	Willie Mays	Willie Mays	Mickey Mantle
1966	Willie Mays	Willie Mays	Willie Mays
1965	Willie Mays	Willie Mays	Willie Mays
1964	Willie Mays	Willie Mays	Mickey Mantle
1963	Hank Aaron	Willie Mays	Willie Mays
1963	Willie Mays
1962	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle
1961	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle
1960	Mickey Mantle	Willie Mays	Mickey Mantle
1959	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle
		Willie Mays
1958	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle	Ted Williams
1957	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle	Stan Musial
1956	Mickey Mantle	Mickey Mantle	Stan Musial
1955	Stan Musial	Duke Snider	Stan Musial
		Eddie Mathews
1954	Stan Musial	Duke Snider	Stan Musial
1953	Stan Musial	Stan Musial	Stan Musial
1952	Stan Musial	Stan Musial	Stan Musial
1952	Jackie Robinson
1951	Stan Musial	Stan Musial	Ted Williams
1950	Ted Williams	Stan Musial	Joe DiMaggio
1949	Ted Williams	Ted Williams	Ted Williams
1948	Hal Newhouser	Ted Williams	Joe DiMaggio
1947	Stan Musial	Hal Newhouser	Joe DiMaggio
1946	Stan Musial	Hal Newhouser	Luke Appling
1945	Bill Nicholson	Augie Galan	Stan Hack
1944	Lou Boudreau	Stan Musial	Mel Ott
1943	Charlie Keller	Charlie Keller	Arky Vaughan
1942	Joe DiMaggio	Ted Williams	Mel Ott
1941	Joe DiMaggio	Joe DiMaggio	Mel Ott
1940	Joe DiMaggio	Joe DiMaggio	Arky Vaughan
1939	Mel Ott	Joe DiMaggio	Mel Ott
1938	Mel Ott	Mel Ott	Lou Gehrig
1937	Lou Gehrig	Joe Medwick	Lou Gehrig
1936	Lou Gehrig	Lou Gehrig	Lou Gehrig
1935	Lou Gehrig	Lou Gehrig	Lou Gehrig
1934	Lou Gehrig	Lou Gehrig	Lou Gehrig
1933	Lou Gehrig	Lou Gehrig	Babe Ruth
		Jimmie Foxx
1932	Babe Ruth	Lou Gehrig	Babe Ruth
1931	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth
1930	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth
1929	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth
1928	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth
1927	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth
1926	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Tris Speaker
1925	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Ty Cobb
1924	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Ty Cobb
1923	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Tris Speaker
1922	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Ty Cobb
1921	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Ty Cobb
1920	Babe Ruth	Babe Ruth	Tris Speaker
1919	Ty Cobb	Babe Ruth	Ty Cobb
1918	Ty Cobb	Ty Cobb	Ty Cobb
1917	Walter Johnson	Ty Cobb	Ty Cobb
1916	Walter Johnson	Tris Speaker	Ty Cobb
1915	Walter Johnson	Walter Johnson	Sam Crawford
1914	Walter Johnson	Walter Johnson	Sam Crawford
		Tris Speaker
1913	Ty Cobb	Walter Johnson	Christy Mathewson
		Eddie Collins
1912	Ty Cobb	Ty Cobb	Honus Wagner
1911	Ty Cobb	Ty Cobb	Honus Wagner
1910	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner
1909	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner
			Nap Lajoie
1908	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner	Cy Young
1907	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner	Cy Young
1906	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner	George Davis
1905	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner	Cy Young
1904	Honus Wagner	Honus Wagner	Cy Young
1903	Cy Young	Cy Young	Cy Young
1902	Cy Young	Honus Wagner	Cy Young
1901	Kid Nichols	Cy Young	Kid Nichols
1900	Kid Nichols	Ed Delahanty	Jesse Burkett
		Kid Nichols
1899	Kid Nichols	Kid Nichols	Kid Nichols
1898	Kid Nichols	Kid Nichols	Kid Nichols
1897	Kid Nichols	Cy Young	Kid Nichols
		Kid Nichols
1896	Cy Young	Cy Young	Kid Nichols
1895	Kid Nichols	Amos Rusie	Amos Rusie
1894	Kid Nichols	Amos Rusie	Jack Stivetts
			Amos Rusie
1893	Bill Hutchison	Kid Nichols	Tony Mullane
1892	Silver King	Bill Hutchison	John Clarkson
1891	John Clarkson	John Clarkson	John Clarkson
1890	Bob Caruthers	Silver King	Charley Radbourn
1889	Bob Caruthers	Silver King	Tim Keefe
1888	Bob Caruthers	Bob Caruthers	Pud Galvin
1887	Charley Radbourn	Bob Caruthers	Pud Galvin
1886	Charley Radbourn	Charley Radbourn	Jim McCormick
1885	Charley Radbourn	Charley Radbourn	Charley Radbourn
1884	Charley Radbourn	Charley Radbourn	Jim McCormick
1884	Jim McCormick
1883	Jim McCormick	Jim Whitney	John Ward
1882	John Ward	Jim McCormick	John Ward
1881	John Ward	John Ward	John Ward
1880	Tommy Bond	Tommy Bond	John Ward
1879	Tommy Bond	Tommy Bond	Tommy Bond
1878	Tommy Bond	Tommy Bond	Tommy Bond
		Jim Devlin

They all have their good points, but overall I do like the original list best.

Comments

2005-09-15 08:25:06

1. Andy

The one thing that I notice is that it very much favors position players since 1917 (only pitchers were due to WWII.) Before then there were a number of pitchers that were the best player. Does Win Shares bias against pitchers because they don't play everyday or were pitchers in the game's early days that much better than hitters?

2005-09-15 09:34:15

2. Cliff Corcoran

Mike, thanks for re-running those. I personally prefer the 3-year list, it looks much more like what I would have come up with off the top of my head, but also adds a lot of names that might otherwise get ignored on such a list (Will Clark, Dave Parker, Tim Raines etc.). Good stuff.

As for Andy's question, I believe it's primarly a function of playing time. But it's also about the balance of the game. That 1917 cut-off is darn close to the end of the dead-ball era. It's not so much that dead-ball era pitchers were better than those of today (one could argue just the opposite, actually), but that the balance of the game was heavily tipped in their favor, something that came to an end when a livlier ball was introduced, the spitball was outlawed, and new balls were regularly introduced over the course of a game, all of which came about around 1920.

2005-09-15 10:27:25

3. Shaun P

Mike, again, very interesting lists. I'm surprised by some of the missing names from the two new lists (Rickey Henderson, e.g.), but seeing all 3 certainly gives a good perspective.

On a somewhat-related topic, recent discussions have me wondering what a chart of MVP winners vs. league leader in different 'clutch' stats - like avg/obp/slg with RISP or in 'close and late' situations - would look like, to see if there's any correlation. I don't know if its even possible - do we have such numbers for the 50s and 60s? Nonetheless, I'm really curious, if you're looking for a good topic. =)

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.